Data-Driven Therapy: The Research Behind Polygraphs in Adolescent Sex-Specific Therapy
Raising a son with inappropriate sexual behaviors is tough, and seeking help can feel overwhelming. At Oxbow Academy, clinical polygraphs are used ethically as a therapeutic tool to foster honesty, trust, and healing. This podcast explains how Oxbow helps boys take responsibility, process trauma, and rebuild family relationships
Please remember that this podcast is not a replacement for therapy, nor do we provide legal advice. Please always seek a mental health professional and lawyer for your personal situation.
Therapist and podcast host Tiffany Herlin, LCSW, sits down with Shawn Brooks, the Executive Director of Oxbow Academy, and Jared Rockwood, LCSW, a polygraph examiner at Oxbow Academy.
Here are the main topics discussed in this episode of the podcast:
- Oxbow's Polygraph Journey: The podcast traces how polygraphs became integral to Oxbow's treatment, from initial hesitation to research-backed implementation.
- Ethical and Safe Practices: Oxbow prioritizes careful preparation and support for students undergoing polygraph testing to mitigate potential harm and foster a safe environment.
- Truth as the Foundation: The episode stresses the importance of honesty in the healing process, with the polygraph aiding in uncovering the truth and enabling deeper therapeutic work.
- Positive Treatment Impacts: Polygraph use is linked to faster treatment progress, academic improvement, and positive behavior changes.
- Trauma-Informed Care: Recognizing the prevalence of trauma, the podcast highlights how polygraphs, used within a safe therapeutic framework, can facilitate trauma processing and healing.
At Oxbow Academy, we strive to help teens and their families heal and re-establish trust between one another. This podcast episode helps explain how clinical polygraphs are used to help students tell the truth in a safe environment without judgment. Oxbow empowers boys to take responsibility, address underlying trauma, and work towards a brighter future alongside their families.
Concerned about your teen's escalating sexual behaviors? Don't wait. Get the support you need now. Oxbow Academy can help. We offer personalized support for families facing these challenges. Call 855-676-4272 to learn how we can guide your family toward healing.
Introduction
Tiffany: Welcome to the final episode of our series! I’m Tiffany Herlin, a licensed clinical social worker, and today I’m joined by Shawn Brooks, the executive director at Oxbow Academy, and Jared Rockwood, a licensed clinical social worker and certified polygrapher at Intermountain Polygraph. Thanks so much for being here!
In our last episode, we covered a lot about polygraphs—what they are, why they’re used, how they can be helpful, and even some of the challenges involved. If you missed that episode, it’s worth a listen.
Today, we’re diving into data-driven therapy and exploring the research behind using polygraphs in adolescent sex therapy. Before we get started, just a quick reminder: this podcast isn’t a substitute for professional therapy. If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out to a mental health professional for help.
Thanks again for joining me, Shawn, and Jared!
Shawn: Thanks for having us back.
Jared: Yeah, it’s great to be here.
Tiffany: Honestly, we could probably talk about this for hours—there’s so much to cover. But for now, we’re focusing on the key points. In our last conversation, we touched on some of the research and data you’ve gathered. For listeners who might just be tuning in, let’s take a step back: why did Oxbow Academy decide to start researching the effectiveness of polygraphs in its program?
The Decision to Research Polygraphs
Shawn: There were a few factors that drove the decision to explore the effectiveness of polygraphs as part of a treatment approach.
First, let me give a little context. I started working in this field in 1992, although it wasn’t until 2001 that I began focusing specifically on problematic sexual behaviors. Early in my career, we didn’t realize we were dealing with these issues because they weren’t openly discussed. From 1992 to 2000, the boys coming into treatment weren’t labeled as having sexual behavior problems—but as we worked with them, these issues often came to light. It was almost always a factor, even though it wasn’t the focus of our work at the time.
By 2001, I decided to specialize in this area because I noticed a shift. From 1996 to 1998, we began seeing a different kind of youth entering the system. These young men weren’t like the gang-involved kids we were used to working with—kids with long criminal histories who were given one last chance at treatment before incarceration. The new group of boys seemed, for lack of a better word, “softer.”
At first, I didn’t understand what was happening. Case managers wouldn’t openly acknowledge the underlying sexual behavior issues. They’d simply place these kids in group homes for treatment without discussing the real problems. It became clear to me that we needed a specialized approach.
We ended up adopting the adult-focused sex-specific treatment models we already had and tailoring them for adolescents because, at the time, that was all we had.
Tiffany: There weren’t any adolescent programs yet.
Shawn: Exactly. Looking back now, it’s kind of horrifying to realize how much we were winging it.
Tiffany: Yeah.
Shawn: Early on, our approach was much more confrontational, but we didn’t know any better at the time. Over the years, we’ve evolved and completely moved away from those methods.
As I attended conferences and presentations, I noticed that anytime polygraphs were mentioned, they sparked strong reactions on both sides—people were either passionately for or against their use. I listened to the arguments, and I could see the merit in both perspectives. Those against polygraphs raised valid concerns, like the potential for harm, and that stuck with me. However, I leaned more toward supporting them because we were already using polygraphs in our program.
Tiffany: Did you use them right from the start?
Shawn: Not exactly. Early on, polygraphs weren’t a core part of the program. We used them sporadically—mainly when requested by a case manager or if we hit a roadblock in treatment and needed additional clarity. Back then, it wasn’t standard for every student to use a polygraph as part of their disclosure process.
What I did notice, though, was that students who underwent a polygraph tended to progress faster in treatment. They shared more information, and I could see them getting healthier more quickly compared to those who didn’t use it. Even in those early days, I felt like polygraphs were probably beneficial, though I didn’t fully understand the reasons why at the time.
Establishing Polygraph as a Treatment Tool
Shawn: I always felt there was value in using polygraphs, so when we opened Oxbow Academy in 2006, I decided to incorporate it into our program. We used it to validate disclosures, ensuring that the information was accurate. Afterward, independent psychologists—completely separate from Oxbow—would assess the case to determine the young man’s risk level: low, moderate, or high. That impartial evaluation helped remove bias, which is crucial when treating these issues.
However, I couldn’t ignore concerns about the potential harm polygraphs could cause. Critics raised valid points about the negative effects, and that nagging thought stuck with me.
Tiffany: Jared even mentioned earlier that polygraphs might be traumatizing, right?
Jared: Yes. In the early 2000s, a few papers came out cautioning against polygraphs, particularly with adolescents. Critics pointed to a lack of research and argued that polygraphs could be traumatizing, especially for vulnerable youth who often already have histories of trauma. Many are court-mandated, which raises ethical questions about using such a tool. The debate caused some professionals to hit the brakes and reconsider. If those claims were true, polygraphs wouldn’t be appropriate.
Shawn: Exactly. I’m naturally skeptical. Over the years, I’ve seen countless treatment methods come and go, many based on subjective evidence. In this debate, both sides were essentially guessing—one camp believed polygraphs were harmful, while the other thought they were beneficial.
Tiffany: As we mentioned earlier, we’re terrible at lie detection.
Shawn: By “we,” we mean therapists.
Tiffany: Yes, therapists—and most people.
Shawn: In fact, therapists might be even worse at detecting lies because we’re human. We’re trained to advocate for our clients and believe they’re improving. Despite being taught in school about avoiding enmeshment, it’s hard not to develop bias.
Back in 2006, we decided to fully integrate polygraphs into our program. But I couldn’t shake the thought: what if the critics were right? What if polygraphs were shaming or trauma-inducing? If that were true, we shouldn’t be using them. The research on adolescents was thin. While there’s quite a bit of data on adults, there wasn’t much about how adolescents perceive the process or how it impacts them.
So, we partnered with Maria Waters, a Ph.D. student, to dig deeper and start exploring these questions.
Researching Adolescent Perspectives
Shawn: Maria helped us a lot. I think we even worked with Jared to develop the survey questions.
Jared: I think it might’ve been John back then since I wasn’t around yet.
Shawn: You’re probably right—it was John.
Tiffany: I have to give a quick shoutout to Maria. She’s an amazing therapist and an even better researcher.
Shawn: Definitely. Do you know how researchers can seem a bit... quirky? Maria had that vibe but in the best way.
Tiffany: Absolutely. She was brilliant.
Shawn: Good researchers don’t believe anything unless they see it in the data. Maria was exactly like that.
Tiffany: She was all about the evidence.
Shawn: So, we sat down with Maria and discussed how to measure the impact of the polygraph process. We wanted to understand the students’ experiences—how they felt before and after the process—and compare those responses.
We started collecting data by having students complete anonymous surveys before and after their polygraph sessions. The goal was to gather enough responses to form a meaningful sample size. It wasn’t about identifying individual students; it was a blind study to ensure objectivity.
Over time, we collected data from about 300 surveys. At that point, patterns began to emerge. One of the most critical questions for me was: Did you feel the polygraph process was harmful?
The results were a relief. About 90% of the students said, “No, it wasn’t harmful.” Many described the experience as favorable or even helpful. That was a big moment for me—it validated that the process wasn’t causing harm.
Tiffany: That was after the polygraph, right? What was the experience like before?
Shawn: Before the polygraph, it was mostly anxiety. They’d express a lot of distress, feeling nervous about validating something. There was often more stress when they were holding on to a secret they weren’t sure they were ready to reveal.
Tiffany: As therapists, we’d notice a spike in their behavior before the polygraph. I always warn the parents, “Just know that your son may start showing old behaviors before the polygraph. He might act out more because he’s feeling that pressure before the test.” It’s not about putting pressure on him, it’s just part of the process.
Shawn: I’ve thought about that a lot. The level of anxiety before the polygraph can be intense. But if we can help them get through that, it’s a chance for real healing. When they finally let go of that secret, we can start helping them for real. I’ve seen this happen with hundreds of cases—this process was necessary to get to the truth, and only then could we begin applying methods that would truly help them.
It’s similar to physical therapy after an operation. It’s tough and uncomfortable, but it’s necessary.
Tiffany: You’ve got to build up those muscles.
Shawn: Exactly. And it’s not painless. So, the idea that healing should be pain-free when it comes to uncovering the truth, I don’t think that’s realistic. The students we work with are already in pain. They wouldn’t be in treatment if they weren’t. They’ve already made mistakes, and it’s our responsibility to recognize that pain. But we also have to acknowledge that the only way to heal it is to understand where that pain is coming from.
Tiffany: And there’s no way around it—you have to go through it.
Shawn: Right.
Tiffany: There’s no easy way.
Shawn: Exactly. There's a crucial part of the process that, if you don’t address it, you can’t truly help. I get that there’s discomfort involved, but post-polygraph, they finally say, “I’ve revealed it. It’s out. I’ve told my truth, and I’m still here. People are supporting me, and the sky didn’t fall like I thought it would.” That’s when they experience this huge sense of relief.
Tiffany: And let’s be real—if you’re not challenged or uncomfortable, you won’t change or grow. Comfort zones are great, but they don’t lead to growth.
Shawn: Right. There’s a reason people don’t live in Disneyland. It’s fun, but you won’t grow as a person there.
Tiffany: Some might argue with that, but you’re probably right.
Shawn: I’d rather not step foot in there! But that’s a whole other topic. Anyway, back to the polygraph results. With a 300-sample size, I still thought it was a bit too small. We kept gathering surveys, and once we hit 400, I started to see more consistent data. It was time to have someone analyze the numbers and tell us what they thought.
I reached out to Jared and said, “I want to share this data with you. I’m not sure where it will go, but it’s already convinced me, as the executive director, that we’re on the right path.” This data pushed me more into the “pro” camp because I felt like we had evidence that what we were doing—and how we were using the polygraph—was benefiting our students and their families.
Understanding Both Sides of the Argument
Shawn: I understand that there are people who disagree, and I respect their position. In my opinion, both sides are right. When you talk to someone who’s against the polygraph, they’ll often describe a scenario where a child is just sitting in a chair in front of a polygraph, with questions fired at them, unprepared. I agree with that—if it's done that way, a polygraph should never be used. It should never be used as a tool for intimidation, or to dig until you get the answers you want. And it should not be used on an adolescent who isn’t ready for it.
So for me, the focus shifted from the polygraph itself, which is just a tool. I think of it like my Apple Watch. It’s cool, right? It tracks my heart rate, blood oxygen, and steps—basically, it reads the signals my body is giving off. The polygraph is the same way. It’s a tool that reads the body’s responses. It’s not everything, but it’s not anything either.
When you prepare a child properly for the polygraph, it can be incredibly effective. But if you don’t prepare them, it could do more harm than good. So we focused on how to properly prepare an adolescent male with problematic sexual behaviors, which is our specialty, to get ready for the clinical polygraph. And there are specific steps that need to be taken.
Tiffany: Which we talked about in our last episode.
Jared: Let me add some numbers from the survey data. Some of the questions asked, "Did you feel your therapist properly prepared you for the test?" The highest scores in the survey were around preparation. Over 95% of the respondents felt well supported through the process.
Tiffany: This is huge for research.
Jared: Yep. The kids were saying, "I felt good going in. I felt prepared. I knew people had my back." So at this point, it’s no longer hypothetical. It’s no longer just "We like to prepare kids." Now, the kids themselves are saying, "I felt prepared."
Tiffany: And "I felt supported. I wasn’t blindsided or pressured. I wasn’t demeaned in the way some people might assume polygraphs are used." That’s the key—how you use the tool and how you prepare the student for it is what matters.
The Importance of Preparation
Shawn: A few important things are happening through this process. First, a relationship is being built between the student and the therapist. There's also a relationship being built between the student and their family, even though it’s under some stress. At Oxbow Academy, we don’t sideline the family during this process—they’re involved and essential, especially when the student is working on their sexual history. Parents play a key role in helping to trigger memories, such as, "Hey, do you remember when this happened?" or "Let's talk about that moment. I felt something was off, but I wasn't sure." This helps students recall details they may not remember on their own.
As we move from discussing the sexual history to the disclosure, we’re getting closer to the truth. And the truth is critical in therapy. Therapy doesn't work without it. How quickly we get to the truth is another important factor.
One of Oxbow’s next research steps is to see whether using the polygraph speeds up the treatment process. Does getting to the truth early help us reach our goals faster than if we didn’t have it?
Tiffany: If a therapist says, "I don’t need the polygraph, I’m so good at my job that I can get this kid to tell me everything," that should be a big red flag.
Shawn: Absolutely. I’ve worked with some incredible therapists, and I’m one of them. But even the best therapists can’t get everything out of a kid without the polygraph. There’s some truth that just won’t come out without it.
Jared: I worked in a program with kids who had problematic sexual behaviors, and I was curious about why they started using polygraphs. I asked the person who started it, and she said, "Sometimes, after nine months of work, we’d finally get a big disclosure, and it was like starting over." So she wondered if there was a way to speed things up. She contacted a local polygraph examiner and asked if they ever polygraphed youth. The response was yes, and she said it was a game-changer. The program converted to using polygraphs, and it made a huge difference.
Shawn: For me, the value of the polygraph is clear. It helps us learn more about the student’s sexual history, but also reveals victims we might not have known about otherwise.
Tiffany: And those victims wouldn't get help.
Shawn: Exactly. Some therapists may argue that it’s not their responsibility to uncover hidden victims. They’ll focus only on the student in front of them, not the others they don’t know about. But for me, I feel it’s our responsibility to get to the truth, no matter how uncomfortable it may be. We need to know what's happening so we can help both the students and the victims who need help but have no one to turn to.
The Impact of Truth on Healing
Tiffany: This reminds me of a family who shared their story with us. The dad said something powerful when he found out his son had multiple victims, but had also been victimized himself. Do you remember what he said?
Shawn: Yes, I do. His son was about to disclose everything and called his dad, saying, "I don't want to do this. It's going to cause a lot of trouble." And his dad replied, "I want all the trouble you can give me. We need it now, not later when you're 22 or 23, and it catches up with you. I want all the trouble." And believe me, it was a lot of trouble. But it was a turning point for that family.
Tiffany: It’s such an incredible story of healing for that family, but they went through it.
Shawn: It was a hard road because everyone involved was part of the family. It was more than just one or two people—it was extensive. But here’s the truth: without that disclosure, there was no chance for healing. Once the truth came out, they had a chance to heal because they finally knew what the problem was. Before that, they didn’t. So, we have a responsibility to help the people we work with get to the truth. Without it, there’s no chance for healing. You can put a Band-Aid on it, but you can’t heal until the truth is on the table.
Tiffany: Exactly, and I understand why some people might disagree with using polygraphs in treatment. But I believe it can be a really important tool.
Shawn: I get the other perspective, too. I believe we should never polygraph a youth without proper preparation. It’s not about tricking them or intimidating them. It should never feel like, “Let’s wire you up and start asking hard questions.” That’s not how we use it.
Tiffany: We don’t want to use it to intimidate. It’s not about that. It’s about healing.
Shawn: Right. One rule at Oxbow is, "If you fail the polygraph, it’s okay." There’s no punishment. If a student doesn’t pass, we just go back to the drawing board. Some kids have bigger secrets than others, and even a failed polygraph is part of the process. We stop and focus on making sure they feel safe and vulnerable enough to open up.
Tiffany: It’s about making the student feel safe enough to be truthful.
Shawn: Exactly. What I love about Jared’s approach is that, as a therapist, he can see when a student isn’t going to pass the polygraph, even early on in the process. He’ll stop the test and say, "I can already tell this isn’t going to work. Let’s stop now and focus on helping you talk about what’s going on." The goal is to help the student get to the truth.
Tiffany: It’s not about the test itself; it’s about the healing process.
Shawn: Right, and it’s our responsibility to help our kids and clients. Without the truth, we can’t help them. This method allows us to get to the truth faster, so we don’t have to backtrack in treatment. I’ve seen cases where we were 12 months into therapy, about to send a student home, and then we found out two of his sisters were victims—and we didn’t know that before. Now, what do we do? Do we say, “Good luck”? No, we have to start over. That’s a huge waste of resources, and it can be avoided by using methods like the polygraph to uncover the truth earlier.
Tiffany: It’s so painful for families who have already invested so much time, money, and effort into those 12 months.
Shawn: And it’s painful for the student, too. Can you imagine going through therapy session after therapy session, knowing in the back of your mind, "We’re talking about all these things, but it doesn’t matter because you don’t know what I’ve done or what’s happened to me"?
Tiffany: Yeah, exactly.
Shawn: We can talk about a lot of things, but unless we’re getting to the heart of the issue, we’re just talking without real treatment or progress. In my opinion, that’s not therapy. This frustration motivated me to collect data.
Tiffany: And Jared is very research-oriented. When I shared the data with him, he agreed and said, "I need to get this peer-reviewed."
Shawn: I loved that because even though Jared has years of experience, both as a therapist and a polygrapher, he still understood the importance of peer review. He wanted someone outside of our experience to look at it and point out any flaws. It was a long process—over a year.
Jared: Yeah, it took longer than I expected, but it worked out. I also had help from a coauthor, Barry Cushman, who did the math for us. So it wasn’t a solo project on my part. But as someone who works in this field and wants to help kids heal, what we’ve done is unique. There’s plenty of research on adults and their experiences with polygraphs, but no one has ever formally published on polygraph use for youth.
Tiffany: It’s crazy that we’re not asking the kids who are going through it what their experience is.
Jared: Exactly.
Tiffany: Where’s the best practice in that?
Jared: Right. So, our approach was unique, and though it seems simple, like just having a conversation, it’s quantifiable. And through that, we uncovered some really interesting insights.
Tiffany: Can I stop you for a second? What’s also important here is recognizing that our youth, even though they’re minors, have rights. We have a responsibility to consider how this is affecting them. By giving them a voice, we’re recognizing that they matter and their experiences matter, even though they aren’t adults.
Jared: Exactly. Giving them that voice is huge.
Youth Perspectives on the Polygraph Experience
Tiffany: Yeah, go ahead.
Jared: Exactly. And if you look at the numbers, over 80% of the kids said, "I felt more honest because of the polygraph process. I probably wouldn’t have been as open without it." For the maintenance tests, which track their day-to-day progress, the kids said that knowing they would be taking a polygraph made them more vigilant about being responsible and accountable for their actions. They believed they made better choices because they knew they’d be held accountable. It gave them that extra moment to pause and think. Sometimes, making good decisions comes down to just a few seconds—enough time to let your brain kick in.
Tiffany: Right, because we know teenage boys’ brains aren’t fully developed, and they’re more impulsive.
Jared: Exactly. This is just one more way to create a moment for them to think things through. And sometimes, that moment can be life-changing.
Tiffany: It’s a game changer for our boys.
Shawn: I’ve read through this, but I’ve never actually asked you, Jared—what was the most surprising part of the data for you? Were there any "aha" moments when you saw the numbers?
Jared: The most interesting part for me was the response to a common belief in the field. There’s a thought in the literature that says polygraphs are traumatizing or punitive. But when we asked the kids about their experience with the polygraph, they overwhelmingly said they felt better about their relationships—whether with their family, their therapist, or even themselves. They felt like they were confronting their realities and that it was helping them. That was exciting for me because it challenged the idea that polygraphs are harmful. It wasn’t just about the polygraph—I was more excited to see that the kids were healing. That’s what matters.
Shawn: From my perspective as a program owner, if the data had shown that the polygraph was traumatizing, we wouldn’t have continued using it. My motivation was to see what the experience was like for the students and be ready to make a decision based on that. I was prepared to stop using the polygraph if the data suggested it wasn’t helping.
Tiffany: How powerful would it be if every clinician and therapist could step back and ask themselves, “Is what we’re doing working? Is it safe? Are the kids improving or getting harmed?” If more programs did this kind of evaluation, think of how many more families we could help—and how much faster we could help them heal.
Shawn: Right.
Tiffany: So, what are some of the specific findings from this data you want to share with us?
Jared: One of the most interesting things we heard from the kids was their view on how honest they would have been without the polygraph. For example, we asked them, "If there was no polygraph, would you have told everything?" Around 73% said, "Yes, I would have been honest." However, about 25% said, "No, I wouldn't have been honest at all without the polygraph." What I find interesting is that the 73% who said they would have been honest, I think they’re trying to be hopeful and honest, but research shows that when a polygraph is used, you generally get more information. I believe the 73% might not have been as honest as they think they would have been.
Tiffany: They’re being a bit too optimistic about themselves.
Jared: Yes, they're hopeful, and I appreciate that, but the research doesn’t support that level of honesty without the polygraph.
Tiffany: Right.
Jared: Another interesting point is how many kids pass the polygraph. There are three possible outcomes: passing, failing, or an "inconclusive" result, which means we can’t make a clear decision. About 80% of the kids pass, 14% fail, and the rest have inconclusive results. Of those who fail, almost all of them admit that they lied, withheld information, or minimized the truth in some way. The kids who fail the test come back and say, "Yeah, I have something to talk about."
Tiffany: Right.
Jared: There’s a small group who say, "I failed, but the test was wrong. It was a false positive."
Tiffany: "It’s not me, it’s you."
Jared: Exactly. And while the polygraph isn’t perfect, some of those who failed may have been misjudged.
Shawn: But even when they come back upset, saying the test was wrong, after a few days, they often admit, "Well, there was this one thing..."
Jared: Yeah.
Shawn: Okay, let’s talk about one thing. Almost every time, there’s always that one thing. The student goes back, passes the polygraph, and moves forward. It’s tough work, but we know it’s not easy for them. What we’re asking them to do is hard, but it’s necessary. If we don’t treat the wound properly, it won’t heal. And if it doesn’t heal, you’ll carry that pain for the rest of your life. Is it painful? Yes. But here’s the choice: you’re already in pain. You can keep carrying the wound and deal with the pain, or you can lean into the pain now, treat the wound, and heal it.
Tiffany: Like just putting a topical cream on it...
Shawn: Or self-medicating, using drugs or alcohol to numb it for a short time. But that doesn't solve the problem. Or, you can face the pain we’re asking you to face, and it will eventually get resolved. It’s painful to deal with it, but once it’s healed, you won’t have to carry it anymore. It’s hard work, but it’s worth it.
Tiffany: Quick story—I once had a rock stuck in my hand. When they tried to numb it, they hit the rock and couldn’t numb it until they took the rock out. It was so painful to watch them dig it out. But if they hadn’t, the rock would have gotten infected, and I’d still be in pain. After they took it out, I healed, and now I have just a scar that hardly bothers me. It’s the same idea. You have to go through the pain to heal, but once it’s over, it’s just a reminder.
Shawn: Exactly. Another thing is the idea that treatment will completely heal someone by the time they leave. That’s not true. Treatment is about guiding them towards a different path, but they still have to live their life. Especially when we talk about trauma, it's always been there, even if we didn’t address it before. Now, trauma is a big part of the clinical approach.
The Role of Trauma in Treatment
Shawn: We see trauma as a fact of life. Some of the trauma my clients at Oxbow have isn’t something that can be fixed just by talking about it.
Tiffany: There’s big trauma and little trauma. The big trauma is something they carry with them.
Shawn: They will carry it with them, but treatment helps them cope with it, understand it healthily, and take responsibility for how they manage it. It’s not about blaming them for the trauma, but about helping them own how they allow it to affect them.
Tiffany: Right. And part of that is rewriting your story, which is something the polygraph helps with.
Shawn: Exactly.
Tiffany: The polygraph lets them tell their story, which is healing. It helps them move past shame and rewrite their story as part of healing from trauma.
Shawn: Absolutely.
Tiffany: Were there any other findings that stood out to you?
Jared: There’s one number I want to highlight as a cautionary point. There was a question asking if anything about the polygraph was damaging, and about 20% of participants said yes, they had a negative experience. If 20% of people say something was damaging, it’s worth considering. Contextually, though, it could be that some of what’s difficult is having hard conversations about things that impact the people they care about. For those who say it was traumatizing, that’s the one number I’d focus on and suggest we pause to think about it.
Shawn: There’s another aspect to consider. When most students come back to the program, they’re happy. But when some students come back, even though they’ve passed, they’re still upset. It’s not about what happened; it’s about their fear of what this might mean for them. They haven’t talked to their parents yet, and they’re worried about the consequences.
Jared: Right.
Shawn: They might think, “I think my relationship with my dad is over.” But after we’ve had time to work through it with them and help the family, their response would probably be different. The worst-case scenario they imagined didn’t happen. It makes you pause and think because sometimes secrets cause collateral damage and lead to trouble. But when you weigh it out, the trouble they face now might be something they can heal from. If the secret stays hidden, it causes ongoing personal issues. Do we just let them sit with the pain and avoid the trouble?
Tiffany: So, just turning a blind eye?
Shawn: Exactly. Saying, “Good luck with that,” even though the odds of it working out are slim. In my opinion, like the dad said, we want all the trouble you can bring right now. Let’s dive in and deal with what we need to face.
Jared: The adult system is built to punish, but the youth system is meant to help rehabilitate and get people back on track.
There’s a big difference.
Tiffany: Are there any areas where you think further research is needed?
Shawn: Well, we’ve got a couple of hours, right? One big question for me is: Is there a difference in the outcomes for students who went through the process with the polygraph versus those who didn’t? That would be hard to answer because it would require comparing two programs—one that always uses the polygraph and one that doesn’t—but they need to address the same issues and track the outcomes.
Another thing I’d like to know more about is the time spent in treatment. We’ve seen that kids who go through the polygraph process tend to move through treatment faster. But to prove that, we’d need to do research, track the time, and see if there’s a real impact on treatment duration.
Those are the two main questions I’d love to explore more.
Future Research Directions
Tiffany: I’d love to see data on how girls respond to a program using a polygraph. If their responses are the same as boys, it’d be interesting to compare the two.
Jared: Sure. From adult research, we know that the polygraph works equally for both men and women in terms of its basic function. The physiological components are similar. There’s one study that showed a different physiological response in adolescents compared to adults. In youth, the most reliable indicator of lying seems to be changes in blood volume, whereas for adults it’s usually changes in skin response. More research on how the polygraph works with youth, especially in terms of physiology, would be really interesting. But it’s a bit too technical for most people listening.
Tiffany: You got a little technical there!
Jared: Yeah, I got a bit excited about that. But the key point is, we don’t know yet if the polygraph is fully accurate for youth. When we ask the kids, most say it worked for them. The ones who lied admitted it. But one question we didn’t ask that would’ve been interesting is for the kids who passed the polygraph, to ask, “Did you lie?” That would have helped us look at false positives and false negatives.
Tiffany: That would have been interesting.
Jared: Yeah, looking back, that would’ve been a good question to include.
Shawn: But we're just getting started. The goal is to find some truth, but each truth leads to more questions. The polygraph has opened up more questions than answers for me and for my program. We feel good about the process and how Jared runs the polygraph, but the real question is: What would have happened without it? If you kept everything the same—the therapist, the student, the dynamics—but took the polygraph out, how would that change things? It shows why they call it a “soft science.” If we were doing a chemistry experiment, we could remove one factor and see what happens. But with something like this, we can only look at it subjectively and keep asking questions. I believe the polygraph plays a positive role, but I want to know how it affects overall outcomes and treatment time.
Therapeutic Polygraph vs. Standard Testing
Jared: If I were to add one thing, I’d say there's a difference between what we call a "therapeutic polygraph"—which involves a lot of preparation—versus just someone sitting down and taking the test without preparation. Then, there’s the scenario where no polygraph is used at all. It’d be interesting to compare the success rates of these three approaches.
Tiffany: That’s fascinating.
Jared: Yeah.
Tiffany: Can you share a success story with our listeners about how this has helped?
Shawn: Sure. I’d say it’s important for parents to recognize that, when they feel like they don’t have the truth and their child is struggling emotionally, socially, and mentally, it takes a lot of courage to face the truth—even though it might be scary. It’s worth it because getting to the truth is crucial for healing. We’ve had many success stories at Oxbow. One thing people don’t realize is that when kids first start the process, they often go through the same kind of physical response as someone detoxing from drugs.
Tiffany: Like a detox?
Shawn: Exactly. But it’s not from drugs—it's from the dopamine hits they get from things like excessive pornography use. These kids can be addicted to that dopamine rush, getting it five, six, or even seven times a day.
Tiffany: Or even acting out sexually.
Shawn: Right. When they enter a program where that access is cut off, they start to see emotional and physical withdrawal. Some people might think that the treatment is bad because the kids are distressed, but it’s a vital part of the process. Just like in drug and alcohol treatment, detox is uncomfortable but necessary. For these kids, it’s important to break their dependence on constant dopamine hits.
And for boys, especially those who are into gaming and pornography, it can be really hard. Parents should know that if their son says he’s just into gaming, he’s probably also into pornography. Most gaming devices now have internet access, so these kids can easily switch from gaming to watching pornography, especially if they’re doing both. They might switch from a violent game to porn, and then quickly back to gaming when they hear footsteps coming down the stairs.
Tiffany: That creates a neurological pathway in the brain, reinforcing that sexual arousal pattern.
Shawn: Exactly. Their dopamine levels spike with those activities. When they enter treatment and no longer have access to those things, they go through a detox period. It usually lasts about two weeks, when they physically and emotionally struggle. But once they get through it, they start to improve. It’s difficult to work on therapeutic assignments during that detox phase, but once they’re through it, we can make real progress.
A Transformative Experience with Polygraphs
Tiffany: Yeah, you have to clear their mind first.
Shawn: Exactly, you have to let it clear out.
Jared: So, this story isn’t from my polygraph work but from my time as a therapist. It was a real turning point for me. When I first encountered polygraphs, I was pretty skeptical.
I had a young man come into our group home because he had been babysitting and had harmed two twin boys. It became widely known, and there was a huge civil lawsuit, not criminal, but the family lost a multi-million dollar case. When he came into treatment, his attorney had given him a gag order, meaning he couldn’t talk about his past. We weren’t allowed to ask him anything, and he wasn’t allowed to take a polygraph.
So, we could only work with what we knew. He was in the program for nine months with no progress. He was very difficult, and the staff struggled with him. He even ran away with two other boys for two days, and when they got into trouble, they were brought back to our facility.
When he returned, he was humbled and said, "That was a bad decision. I wish I hadn’t done that. I need to tell you some things, Jared." But our rules were strict: "I’m not supposed to hear this," I said. He replied, "You didn’t ask. I’m telling you." So, he shared everything—the additional victims and things that needed to be addressed.
Now, I had to call his parents and say, "I know we’re under a gag order, but here’s the situation." Immediately, they decided, “Go ahead and polygraph him since he’s already been honest.” So, we sent him for the polygraph, and he passed it. After that, he made rapid progress in treatment. He had been stuck for nine months, but within just a few months, he was thriving in the community.
The key to his success was his finally releasing the truth. The polygraph just validated what he had already admitted. It wasn’t the most important part, but he was on top of the world when he came back. He said, "I told you everything. I passed the polygraph because I wanted to tell the truth. It’s been hard not to."
Tiffany: That’s where we want all our students and clients to get to—where it’s about you and me working together to validate your truth, not about catching you in a lie. I love that story. Thank you for sharing.
Shawn: I have several stories like that.
Tiffany: You’ve shared a couple already in the last episode.
Shawn: The main thing is this: the principle of truth. You've probably heard the saying, "You’re only as sick as your secrets." And it’s true—you don’t heal from secrets; you heal from the truth. You can’t grow as a person when you’re weighed down by secrets because they poison you. Secrets stop your development.
In my opinion, as human beings, we’re programmed to move forward, no matter where we’re at. We have to keep moving—emotionally, physically, mentally. We need that constant progress.
But with our students, when they’re stuck in their secrets, their development stops. It’s like it’s killing them. Their soul, or the part of them that makes them human, is begging to move forward, and the truth is what helps them do that.
The story Jared told makes sense to me because that young man was in so much pain from not being able to move past those secrets. He knew he had to tell the truth, and with all the pressure around him, he finally did. That’s what good therapy looks like—when a young person realizes, "I can’t stay in this pain. I have to keep moving."
The truth is the fuel that lets us move forward. It’s what gives us the strength to keep going.
Tiffany: I love it. The truth is what helps a lot of our students heal and gives them a second chance at life. Many of the students we work with feel like their future isn’t bright. They carry a lot of shame and have little hope. But when they find the truth, and with the help of a polygraph to hold them accountable, it gives us the tools we need as clinicians to help them—and their families—move forward.
Shawn: Yeah.
Tiffany: Through the pain.
Shawn: One last statistic.
Tiffany: Yes, please.
Shawn: We track how students are doing in their residential, clinical, and academic progress. We have a few tools we use that show a consistent pattern, and this pattern is linked to their overall outcomes. What’s interesting is that when students heal emotionally or clinically, they also improve academically at the same time. It was something I questioned at first—whether academic success leads to emotional progress or the other way around. But we see that when there’s progress clinically, there’s usually a boost in their academic performance too.
The thing about academics is that it’s an investment in the future. It doesn’t always pay off right now, but we’re taught that education opens doors later in life. It’s something we’re all raised to believe. With our kids, when they finally get past their emotional struggles, they begin to see a future for themselves. And that’s when their academic performance starts improving.
Tiffany: I love that.
Shawn: And when students stop seeing a future for themselves, we often see their academic performance drop. It makes sense—if they don’t see where they’re going in life, why would they put energy into something like school?
Tiffany: Yeah, that makes sense to me. Shawn and Jared, I appreciate the work you both do. I love talking to you—your expertise is so valuable, and your research shows how helpful polygraphs can be. I admire how data-driven you both are and how committed you are to using best practices to help your clients heal. It’s inspiring for me as a therapist to talk with both of you.
Shawn: Thank you.
Conclusion and Resources
Tiffany: If you want to learn more about Jared's work, you can visit intermountainpolygraph.com. Feel free to check it out. We'll also tag you and include your information in the podcast notes with the link. It’s been such an honor and privilege to talk to both of you. Thank you for joining us.
Jared: Thanks for having us.
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